Spenser's Street FD

[spenser8797]

Yep still good results on the baby G30 and yeah it's a massive difference compared to the last runs! I'll try to get out on some flatter roads soon, I also need to try wearing earphones as I can't hear where 200kph is in 4th at the moment!

I think next up will be sorting out suspension/ drivetrain bits. It could probably do with bushes all around and possibly braces to get rid of wheel hop and trouble shifting at high RPM.

Also really impressed with the PS5s on the back... I haven't tried to light them up, but they've hooked so far in 1st around 3k WOT and don't seem to get loose from there!

 

[Copyninja]

If you are stock box like me? then rev out to 8krpm in 4th to hit 130mph on the draggy. That will give you 100-200kph and 60-130mph. The 100-200kph is more popular across platforms.

Get a diff brace, that will help.

I used the older ps4 and was always impressed with how they hooked from cold. On cup 2s right now....and they seem to be good as well, but likely switch out to ps4 or ps5 for the winter.

 

[spenser8797]

Yeah stock box - lovely I shall do that!

Ah I have heard good things about the cup 2s, and yeah looking forward to seeing how the ps5s get on in the winter...

 

[Copyninja]

All the goodness of the ps4 but the ps5 are meant to be even better with wear. In the cold they will be more switched on, unlike the cup 2 which take a little bit to warm up before they come online!

Great to see you got on the 100-200 kph runs right away and stayed flat through out.

 

[spenser8797]

Had to be done... I wanted to see where the car was at and you can't beat dragy for that. I know there are a couple in the US with similar setups and decent power, but I haven't seen any dragy results to confirm!

 

[Copyninja]

Agreed, its a cruel mistress, the draggy. You either hit the numbers you expect or you dont.

For e.g. your 11.10s run was faster than my E92 M3 V8 by a few tenths! Goes to show even the stock setup is good enough if overall reliability wasn't an issue.

Speaking of the U.S...the below was shared by a fellow owner as an Oem+ FD with stock port, sequential twins, intake, exhaust, SMIC, HKS TP at 14-15psi as a comparison. If reliable and repeatable that's good enough to hang with a stage 2 E92 m3.

 

[spenser8797]

That is pretty impressive! Certainly enough to keep up with some of the newer and more expensive cars out there.

I haven't been back out for any runs just yet, shouldn't complain but it's too bloody warm

 

[spenser8797]

The FD blew up...

TL;DR going for a rebuild, maybe modern ECU, maybe bigger turbo if the kitty allows.

The long story:

I hadn't driven the FD a huge amount after summer last year, and just as winter came I started having strange boost problems... I saw/ heard a boost warning from the controller and noticed a peak of 1.4 bar... I reset the peak and kept an eye on it, but noticed every time I attempted to build some boost, it pretty much wacked straight up to the boost warning of 1.2 bar. It did this the second the turbo started to spool whilst I was testing in 1st, 2nd & 3rd (backed off straight after hearing the warning). Changed to low boost and it essentially behaved like it used to in high boost, however the spiking got progressively worse until the point where I ran it with the controller off/ at spring pressure (no issues here from testing before).

We had run a boost leak test previously (no leaks) and I put a new boost solenoid on - thinking it might have gone, but it still played up... I gave Marco a message and he suggested dropping the duty, I dropped high and low by 10% each which seemed to have cured the issue. Although after driving the car more often, I noticed the same thing happening again in high boost, at which point I drove around in low boost (1.05 bar peak here). I decided to take the FD on the motorway to work, as I broke my other 2 cars... Filled it up the night before, gave it a little boost in 2nd and all was well. I remember climbing a hill in 2nd, probably about 1/4 throttle and the car had an odd hesitation - thought nothing of it as it drove absolutely fine home from then. Got to the motorway the morning after, poodling fine until I gave it a pull in 3rd, after which the car started running a little rough (felt like the plugs were fouled). I revved it out a touch and it didn't get any better, drove a few more miles and it got worse. My clever self gave it a limiter bash at this point, where 1 rotor cleary failed, oil everywhere and exhaust noises were coming from unexpected places .

Since then it has gone over to Josh and the guys at TPS, the front rotor is dead as it shat a corner seal (part of it actually lodged my wastegate open which is where the noises were coming from). Damaged rotor of course, and potentially turbo damage... I've decided to go for a rebuild, I'm also tempted to go for a modern ECU with some failsafes and possibly stepping up turbo size - TBC. Looking at the plugs it has detonated, and we know what has let go, but I would love to know why! Time will tell hopefully

 

[Copyninja]

The FD blew up...

TL;DR going for a rebuild, maybe modern ECU, maybe bigger turbo if the kitty allows.

The long story:

I hadn't driven the FD a huge amount after summer last year, and just as winter came I started having strange boost problems... I saw/ heard a boost warning from the controller and noticed a peak of 1.4 bar... I reset the peak and kept an eye on it, but noticed every time I attempted to build some boost, it pretty much wacked straight up to the boost warning of 1.2 bar. It did this the second the turbo started to spool whilst I was testing in 1st, 2nd & 3rd (backed off straight after hearing the warning). Changed to low boost and it essentially behaved like it used to in high boost, however the spiking got progressively worse until the point where I ran it with the controller off/ at spring pressure (no issues here from testing before).

We had run a boost leak test previously (no leaks) and I put a new boost solenoid on - thinking it might have gone, but it still played up... I gave Marco a message and he suggested dropping the duty, I dropped high and low by 10% each which seemed to have cured the issue. Although after driving the car more often, I noticed the same thing happening again in high boost, at which point I drove around in low boost (1.05 bar peak here). I decided to take the FD on the motorway to work, as I broke my other 2 cars... Filled it up the night before, gave it a little boost in 2nd and all was well. I remember climbing a hill in 2nd, probably about 1/4 throttle and the car had an odd hesitation - thought nothing of it as it drove absolutely fine home from then. Got to the motorway the morning after, poodling fine until I gave it a pull in 3rd, after which the car started running a little rough (felt like the plugs were fouled). I revved it out a touch and it didn't get any better, drove a few more miles and it got worse. My clever self gave it a limiter bash at this point, where 1 rotor cleary failed, oil everywhere and exhaust noises were coming from unexpected places .

Since then it has gone over to Josh and the guys at TPS, the front rotor is dead as it shat a corner seal (part of it actually lodged my wastegate open which is where the noises were coming from). Damaged rotor of course, and potentially turbo damage... I've decided to go for a rebuild, I'm also tempted to go for a modern ECU with some failsafes and possibly stepping up turbo size - TBC. Looking at the plugs it has detonated, and we know what has let go, but I would love to know why! Time will tell hopefully


View attachment 39277View attachment 39278

Gutted for you and I've been on the receiving end of engine failure and its not a great place to be. I would recommend to get the engine studded and balanced if it wasnt already? My street port was built by Tim at RX motors and i've been pushing 1.6 to 1.7bar through it without issues. Currently its the fastest 13b streetport on draggy and i plan to push 2.2bar through it and see if it runs into the low 5s range .

Burn the Apexi PFC ! It doesn't belong on a single turbo rx7 especially when new 13bs are nearly 10k a piece from Mazda. Madness!!

100% invest in a modern ECU, like a Link G4X or whatever modern ecu your tuner or builder recommend. Speaking from experience, over the past 4 years the link ECU saved my 13b engine 4x and allowed me to test and complete 300+ 100-200km/h runs without issues. I imagine the cost of rebuilding the engine, not to mention all the other parts that would get damaged, maybe even a new turbo will be around 6-10k depending on damage etc.

The error leading to failure is likely not a single event, but a series of issues that culminated in engine failure. Here's what i got from your story:

• Boost Spiking: The car was experiencing uncontrollable boost spikes, exceeding the safe limit even with a new boost solenoid.
• To compensate for the spiking, you switched to low boost mode and reduced duty cycle, which initially seemed to resolve the issue but the issues came back meaning the real boost spike issue was never identified.
• Hesitation and Rough Running: Later, the engine hesitated and ran rough, potentially due to fouled plugs but more likely due to detonation because of boost spikes. This was a Major red flag and should have meant no more boost and a deeper dive to trouble shoot the issues. Perhaps new plugs, drop the oil and inspect or even a compression test.
• Limiter Bash: In an attempt to clear the issue, you used the boost and WOT to bounce off the rev limiter which likely put excessive stress on the already compromised engine and was the final nail in the coffin.

 

[spenser8797]

Gutted for you and I've been on the receiving end of engine failure and its not a great place to be. I would recommend to get the engine studded and balanced if it wasnt already? My street port was built by Tim at RX motors and i've been pushing 1.6 to 1.7bar through it without issues. Currently its the fastest 13b streetport on draggy and i plan to push 2.2bar through it and see if it runs into the low 5s range .

Burn the Apexi PFC ! It doesn't belong on a single turbo rx7 especially when new 13bs are nearly 10k a piece from Mazda. Madness!!

100% invest in a modern ECU, like a Link G4X or whatever modern ecu your tuner or builder recommend. Speaking from experience, over the past 4 years the link ECU saved my 13b engine 4x and allowed me to test and complete 300+ 100-200km/h runs without issues. I imagine the cost of rebuilding the engine, not to mention all the other parts that would get damaged, maybe even a new turbo will be around 6-10k depending on damage etc.

The error leading to failure is likely not a single event, but a series of issues that culminated in engine failure. Here's what i got from your story:

• Boost Spiking: The car was experiencing uncontrollable boost spikes, exceeding the safe limit even with a new boost solenoid.
• To compensate for the spiking, you switched to low boost mode and reduced duty cycle, which initially seemed to resolve the issue but the issues came back meaning the real boost spike issue was never identified.
• Hesitation and Rough Running: Later, the engine hesitated and ran rough, potentially due to fouled plugs but more likely due to detonation because of boost spikes. This was a Major red flag and should have meant no more boost and a deeper dive to trouble shoot the issues. Perhaps new plugs, drop the oil and inspect or even a compression test.
• Limiter Bash: In an attempt to clear the issue, you used the boost and WOT to bounce off the rev limiter which likely put excessive stress on the already compromised engine and was the final nail in the coffin.

Yes that is a fair summary! The boost spiking issue was never truly rectified and ultimately the cause. I suppose in hindsight I should have stopped driving quicker when it started running rough on the motorway, and I know the limiter bash wasn't a great idea lol.

I don't know if the engine was studded or balanced when built, I did try to get some info from Stu a few years ago when I bought the car but didn't hear back at the time. Will be going through the new build with Josh/ TPS in the next few days.

ECU wise, Marco recommended Haltec but has tuned a few G4x cars too. I'm confident that the PFC is going and I'm leaning more towards the PnP G4x kit but am still looking at options! Turbo wise, I'd say I'm 70% there in terms of upgrading. Some corner seal definitely went through it, so I'm going to get the G30 tested anyway for peace of mind, as I'll likely sell it. Initially I thought I could keep my hot side and run a G35, although I've seen now that I can't! I was content with the G30 and I loved the response, but seeing as everything is apart again......... I don't know if I can stretch to the Garrett G35 this time around, considering the Pulsar G-Series alternatives (G35 900 or 1050) - they seem to have stepped their game up!

 

[Copyninja]

Yes that is a fair summary! The boost spiking issue was never truly rectified and ultimately the cause. I suppose in hindsight I should have stopped driving quicker when it started running rough on the motorway, and I know the limiter bash wasn't a great idea lol.

I don't know if the engine was studded or balanced when built, I did try to get some info from Stu a few years ago when I bought the car but didn't hear back at the time. Will be going through the new build with Josh/ TPS in the next few days.

ECU wise, Marco recommended Haltec but has tuned a few G4x cars too. I'm confident that the PFC is going and I'm leaning more towards the PnP G4x kit but am still looking at options! Turbo wise, I'd say I'm 70% there in terms of upgrading. Some corner seal definitely went through it, so I'm going to get the G30 tested anyway for peace of mind, as I'll likely sell it. Initially I thought I could keep my hot side and run a G35, although I've seen now that I can't! I was content with the G30 and I loved the response, but seeing as everything is apart again......... I don't know if I can stretch to the Garrett G35 this time around, considering the Pulsar G-Series alternatives (G35 900 or 1050) - they seem to have stepped their game up!

The first few months after rebuilding I kept chasing this boost control problem. I threw everything I knew at it with the ECU, changing settings and remapping, but nothing worked. Seriously frustrating! Turned out, it was a stupid kinked boost line coming off the waste-gate. Such a small thing caused such a big headache. I later changed all boost lines to reinforced silicone hoses instead of the crappy soft silicone hoses i had on prior.

Seriously thought don't underestimate the little stuff. Also, dyno tunes can be deceiving. If your AITs (air intake temperatures) are climbing crazy high on the dyno (over 40 degrees), there's a good chance your boost control is set up for those hot conditions. Out on the road, with no heat soak from the dyno, your AITs will be way cooler, closer to ambient temperature. That can lead to major overboosting issues If you don't have a closed-loop system. With modern ECU's life is easier as you can log and review what is going on in real time. Allowing you to diagnose the problems with surgical precision. I bet you have no actual ECU data to know what was really going on?

I maybe selling my G35 1050 at some point this year so watch this space. I've heard mixed reviews about the pulsar turbos and for half the price of the G series they are so tempting. Personally I wouldn't touch them as their Inconel turbine wheel is rated to 713*C...but rotary exhaust heat can get closer to 1000*C on pump fuel. The G series are rated to 1050° C which is a better fit for rotary imo.

Depends how quick you want the car to be. If you are happy and content with a 8s 100-200 fd....than your current turbo is easily good enough.

 

[Francob]

Definitely upgrade ECU

 

[spenser8797]

The first few months after rebuilding I kept chasing this boost control problem. I threw everything I knew at it with the ECU, changing settings and remapping, but nothing worked. Seriously frustrating! Turned out, it was a stupid kinked boost line coming off the waste-gate. Such a small thing caused such a big headache. I later changed all boost lines to reinforced silicone hoses instead of the crappy soft silicone hoses i had on prior.

Seriously thought don't underestimate the little stuff. Also, dyno tunes can be deceiving. If your AITs (air intake temperatures) are climbing crazy high on the dyno (over 40 degrees), there's a good chance your boost control is set up for those hot conditions. Out on the road, with no heat soak from the dyno, your AITs will be way cooler, closer to ambient temperature. That can lead to major overboosting issues If you don't have a closed-loop system. With modern ECU's life is easier as you can log and review what is going on in real time. Allowing you to diagnose the problems with surgical precision. I bet you have no actual ECU data to know what was really going on?

I maybe selling my G35 1050 at some point this year so watch this space. I've heard mixed reviews about the pulsar turbos and for half the price of the G series they are so tempting. Personally I wouldn't touch them as their Inconel turbine wheel is rated to 713*C...but rotary exhaust heat can get closer to 1000*C on pump fuel. The G series are rated to 1050° C which is a better fit for rotary imo.

Depends how quick you want the car to be. If you are happy and content with a 8s 100-200 fd....than your current turbo is easily good enough.

Yes that must have been very frustrating! Everything appeared to be in shape when we checked the lines a while back - it was running all new vibrant silicone hoses too!

Yep I have absolutely no data to go from unfortunately. Which is one of the reasons why I'm looking at changing to a modern ECU this time around. With the G4x PnP, presumably it utilises all of the factory sensors and should be ok calibrating my aftermarket IAT and MAP sensor. I'd like to add oil and fuel pressure too ideally - looking in to that. I found the commander on the PFC pretty useful, so I'm looking at display options for the link - I don't have a radio and am hoping to find a double din sized screen of some sort to run RealDash for monitoring.

Part of me thinks there is more to be gained from my current turbo too. I know Marco asked for more boost... I wonder if I've carried some sort of boost control weirdness from the start. We did have a bit of faff with the wastegate at the dyno, where the 12 psi spring combo wouldn't open the gate, and I thought we settled with a 10 psi spring, but when I was testing with the controller off it held 8 psi (I didn't try outside of 2nd gear though). Will have to check all of that... I have contacted Midland Turbos for an inspection on the G30 anyway, and have asked what their upgrade options are. That may be a cheaper alternative to upgrading, but yes worst case if mine is ok after inspection, I could run it again.

Way out of my depth here, but pinching some data from some of the US guys, with some calculation help from ChatGPT and other limiting factors aside, 1.4 bar boost should have got me somewhere near 500 hp. The red line is approximately what it delivered before:

 

[Copyninja]

Yes that must have been very frustrating! Everything appeared to be in shape when we checked the lines a while back - it was running all new vibrant silicone hoses too!

Yep I have absolutely no data to go from unfortunately. Which is one of the reasons why I'm looking at changing to a modern ECU this time around. With the G4x PnP, presumably it utilises all of the factory sensors and should be ok calibrating my aftermarket IAT and MAP sensor. I'd like to add oil and fuel pressure too ideally - looking in to that. I found the commander on the PFC pretty useful, so I'm looking at display options for the link - I don't have a radio and am hoping to find a double din sized screen of some sort to run RealDash for monitoring.

Part of me thinks there is more to be gained from my current turbo too. I know Marco asked for more boost... I wonder if I've carried some sort of boost control weirdness from the start. We did have a bit of faff with the wastegate at the dyno, where the 12 psi spring combo wouldn't open the gate, and I thought we settled with a 10 psi spring, but when I was testing with the controller off it held 8 psi (I didn't try outside of 2nd gear though). Will have to check all of that... I have contacted Midland Turbos for an inspection on the G30 anyway, and have asked what their upgrade options are. That may be a cheaper alternative to upgrading, but yes worst case if mine is ok after inspection, I could run it again.

Way out of my depth here, but pinching some data from some of the US guys, with some calculation help from ChatGPT and other limiting factors aside, 1.4 bar boost should have got me somewhere near 500 hp. The red line is approximately what it delivered before:


View attachment 39302

Yes def get those sensors connected to the ECU.

Collette's S15 13b streetport with a G35 900 made 522hp at 1.9bar on E85. The G-series turbos more efficient at higher boost, so you might have to crank it up to 1.7bar to see what the baby G30-770 can really do on the 13b. If like before you are limited to only 1bar than you know the turbo is too small or perhaps still have an unresolved boost issue.

 

[spenser8797]

I just watched that video - impressive!

Heard back from Midland Turbos... My G30-770 is the same size externally as the G35-900 - the only difference is the machining internally. They are able to source the the G35 compressor wheel, turbine wheel and machine to fit. I'm likely going to go ahead with that!

 

[Temujin]

I just watched that video - impressive!

Heard back from Midland Turbos... My G30-770 is the same size externally as the G35-900 - the only difference is the machining internally. They are able to source the the G35 compressor wheel, turbine wheel and machine to fit. I'm likely going to go ahead with that!

Oooh nice! Was happy with my experience with them, apparently the lad doing it was happy when he saw it was on an rx7 haha

 

[spenser8797]

Oooh nice! Was happy with my experience with them, apparently the lad doing it was happy when he saw it was on an rx7 haha

Yep I've always heard good things! Haha yes it was Liam I was speaking to - seems to be an rx7 fan! I remember those happy fan days... Now it's an unhealthy mixture of extreme happiness and untold misery

 

[spenser8797]

So over the last few weeks the engine came out and got stripped. Everything has been sent off for machining and I also went for balancing and a stud kit. Injectors have been sent off for flow testing and the turbo is currently with Midland Turbos for a rebuild + G35 conversion.

The ECU has also been ordered... Went for the Haltech Elite 1500 and will be adding a boost solenoid, CAN lambda kit with NTK sensor, then a couple of dual function pressure/ temp sensors for fuel and oil. Planning to utilise direct fire on the Haltech too. Still need to do a bit more reading up, but I think I'll be able to ditch the factory O2 sensor and fuel temp sensor.

I really liked the PFC commander, and have been searching high and low for neat, low-lag display options. I found BTI gauges (over CAN), and got curious about their boost control feature over analogue outputs. We exchanged a few messages and it turns out they are releasing a firmware update in a few weeks to their 3.5" display, that will enable their device to emulate Haltech CAN devices (4 configurable outputs over Haltech CAN). Which will allow me to change boost levels and I'd like to eventually use it for arming rolling-launch. Leaving 2 spare for enabling data-logging or flat shift perhaps. Drakelore do a column pod for the display too!

The car is back with me now, I'll be getting rid of the PFC, 3x AEM gauges and my boost controller at some point - these will be for sale soon!

 

[Francob]

Nice one mate, coming along nicely.

 

[spenser8797]

Slow progress but we're getting there...

Over the last few months we've had the turbo back from Midland, engine bits back from Colum (additionally went for clearanced rotors), ECU bits and the new gauge setup. I didn't wait until Black Friday for the ECU bits as I thought I'd be waiting less time for everything to be back - so the savings I could have had are making me heave, but it is what it is

The block should be assembled by the end of the month, and hopefully the car back together by the end of Jan. Umming and ahing about porting though, 75% sure on large street but I am being tempted by a set of half-bridged lapped irons that have become available. Realistically it's not needed at all for my power goal, but braps?????

This year I've had the engine go on the 7, gearbox shit itself on my 172, head gasket go on my 325ti and I've just snapped a driveshaft. All part of the fun I suppose, hopefully things break less next year!