Brake upgrades

[MightyCondor]

My experience at Blyton Park with refreshed calipers and ds2500 pads suggested that stock brakes aren't really up to the job in a single turbo rotary.

I think a BBK will be the way forward but not sure which to go for. Various considerations such as bias and cost of consumables to consider...

 

[rob fd]

My experience at Blyton Park with refreshed calipers and ds2500 pads suggested that stock brakes aren't really up to the job in a single turbo rotary.

I think a BBK will be the way forward but not sure which to go for. Various considerations such as bias and cost of consumables to consider...

I'm pretty sure I'm going to do a BBK conversion before I track the car.

 

[jdmr_neil]

I have always felt the standard 4 pots are ample for the 1200kg fd. I have tried many variants of aftermarket pads/ discs etc. Only in the last few trackdays i felt that ok i could probably brake a little later with some better brakes. But!!!. There are so many other ways i could go around the circuit quicker before i go for a bbk. Sorry thats just my thinking because unless I'm pushing something beyond its operational means then its still working well imo. More tuition and bravery goes a lot further than tyres/ suspension/ brakes usually and I'm still working on the former if I'm honest.

 

[4packet]

I did a lot of research when I built the car (over 5 years ago now) and the best way to keep the stock bias was to go with the Stoptech BBK 332/32mm. Smaller piston dia offset the larger discs. 2 options to match both rear brake sizes too (I run 314mm rear). Pads are comparable money, discs were cheap in the US (I hand carried the kit with spares), but not sure how they compare to alternatives these days.

I use carbotech XP10 pads. They are disc kind and the dust is relatively easy to clean off the wheels for what they are. I don't consider DS2500's a track pad, but OK for fast road. XP8's performed fine also, but Ian claimed the 10's would last a bit longer on track.

Depends how much power you expect to use on track and your anticipated lap time. I run around 450 bhp and the brakes are on the limit on a dry day. I either need front cooling or bigger brakes on the front. Rears cope OK, but I've attached a duct to assist with cooling as the rear pad wear is excessive (less than 3 dry track days).

Gulf RF1000 seems to be a good price point for performance brake fluid (I've compared all the specs). I bleed after every trackday. If I increase the length of my braking the fluid will boil.

My front discs suffer with surface cracks. I aim to reduce the number of thermal cycles and warm them up slowly. Tourist days at the 'ring are the worst environment.

Hopefully that's a useful data point.

 

[Sacrilegious-FD]

I did a lot of research when I built the car (over 5 years ago now) and the best way to keep the stock bias was to go with the Stoptech BBK 332/32mm. Smaller piston dia offset the larger discs. 2 options to match both rear brake sizes too (I run 314mm rear). Pads are comparable money, discs were cheap in the US (I hand carried the kit with spares), but not sure how they compare to alternatives these days.

I use carbotech XP10 pads. They are disc kind and the dust is relatively easy to clean off the wheels for what they are. I don't consider DS2500's a track pad, but OK for fast road. XP8's performed fine also, but Ian claimed the 10's would last a bit longer on track.

Depends how much power you expect to use on track and your anticipated lap time. I run around 450 bhp and the brakes are on the limit on a dry day. I either need front cooling or bigger brakes on the front. Rears cope OK, but I've attached a duct to assist with cooling as the rear pad wear is excessive (less than 3 dry track days).

Gulf RF1000 seems to be a good price point for performance brake fluid (I've compared all the specs). I bleed after every trackday. If I increase the length of my braking the fluid will boil.

My front discs suffer with surface cracks. I aim to reduce the number of thermal cycles and warm them up slowly. Tourist days at the 'ring are the worst environment.

Hopefully that's a useful data point.

I do like your car, think I'm subscribed to your YouTube uploads

 

[jdmr_neil]

I did a lot of research when I built the car (over 5 years ago now) and the best way to keep the stock bias was to go with the Stoptech BBK 332/32mm. Smaller piston dia offset the larger discs. 2 options to match both rear brake sizes too (I run 314mm rear). Pads are comparable money, discs were cheap in the US (I hand carried the kit with spares), but not sure how they compare to alternatives these days.

I use carbotech XP10 pads. They are disc kind and the dust is relatively easy to clean off the wheels for what they are. I don't consider DS2500's a track pad, but OK for fast road. XP8's performed fine also, but Ian claimed the 10's would last a bit longer on track.

Depends how much power you expect to use on track and your anticipated lap time. I run around 450 bhp and the brakes are on the limit on a dry day. I either need front cooling or bigger brakes on the front. Rears cope OK, but I've attached a duct to assist with cooling as the rear pad wear is excessive (less than 3 dry track days).

Gulf RF1000 seems to be a good price point for performance brake fluid (I've compared all the specs). I bleed after every trackday. If I increase the length of my braking the fluid will boil.

My front discs suffer with surface cracks. I aim to reduce the number of thermal cycles and warm them up slowly. Tourist days at the 'ring are the worst environment.

Hopefully that's a useful data point.

That is excellent information for myself and many other fd track day drivers.

Thanks

 

[4packet]

I do like your car, think I'm subscribed to your YouTube uploads

Thanks! Just put a new vid up from Spa last Monday playing with a Huracan. Was wet for 95% of the day, so not a particularly honed line.

Look forward to seeing your 2nd iteration unfold. If a suitable caged shell came up for sale I’d consider doing it again, but more for the track.

 

[Cullen94]

Im using DS2500 pads and Motul600 fluid and I'm very impressed tbh, no fade and strong stopping power. No need to upgrade to BBK in my opinion although I wouldnt turn down a Project MU kit if it was handed to me EDIT: Might be worth mentioning I have the RS brakes on my car with the larger 314mm discs

 

[Sacrilegious-FD]

Thanks! Just put a new vid up from Spa last Monday playing with a Huracan. Was wet for 95% of the day, so

Look forward to seeing your 2nd iteration unfold. If a suitable caged shell came up for sale I’d consider doing it again, but more for the track.

Nice vid, my lines I can imagine are shocking.,....... I have fun though, I would love to keep the Ls3 for the track but the mrs would skin me alive.......

Thanks should end up a nice car, and i will track it.....


Neil

 

[Cullen94]

Some of the fastest time attack FDs in Japan still run the stock calipers with disc, pads and fluid upgrade might be worth looking into.

 

[cib24]

Hmm...I run RS-sized Dixcel FP discs with Project Mu HC+ pads, Motul RBF 600 and stainless lines, and I definitely get brake fade out on track. Perhaps I will try direct ducting with Hoses pointing to the front discs before I try to cram the largest discs possible to fit inside a 17" rim with mega calipers.

 

[Cullen94]

Hmm...I run RS-sized Dixcel FP discs with Project Mu HC+ pads, Motul RBF 600 and stainless lines, and I definitely get brake fade out on track. Perhaps I will try direct ducting with Hoses pointing to the front discs before I try to cram the largest discs possible to fit inside a 17" rim with mega calipers.

Maybe I’m not braking hard enough

 

[Cullen94]

Even Jesse Streeter is running stock calipers with HC+ pads on his touge 4 rotor monster 500+hp

 

[jdmr_neil]

I deffo get brake fade, but this was on my 1.2bar twins as i could really push that set up. With stoptech discs, pads lines and rbf600 fluid. The first 3 laps were fantastic with it gradually getting worse but never really giving up. Tyres are a massive consideration when checking your brakes. I found swapping out my ns2 nangkans for ad08r a huge braking upgrade.

I am still learning getting the power down consistently on the single before worrying about brakes again so much.

 

[Ceylon]

A lot of the aftermarket BBK's don't come with dust covers etc, makes me wonder how well they'd actually hold up to normal road use.

The RS brakes are fine on track if in decent condition with the right pads, discs and ducting. I wouldn't think they were driving gently when they won the Bathurst 12 hour on RS brakes.

 

[4packet]

Interested to know how many flying laps those Japanese Time Attack cars doing back to back? Tsukuba is a very short circuit. Perhaps 2 or 3 times shorter than Silverstone/Spa for instance.

With brand new RS discs/pads and some cooling I’m sure it’s possible for short sessions, but I wouldn’t want to do more than a couple of hot laps with half worn discs and pads. I genuinely struggle to get 3 dry trackdays out of a set of pads with my setup (Fed RSR’s BTW). Twice now I’ve been caught out and gone down to the metal. At Oulton I was chasing an Atom race car and my buddy saw the front discs glowing cherry red down the pit straight. Half way round that lap the fluid completely gave out and I was lucky to make the corner, or even safely return to the pits. The caliper seals were wrecked from that. Slight caveat - the rear brake seals (2nd set of BigRed) never seemed to seal properly so the fronts were doing a little more work that day. The 2nd time was at Destination Nurburgring (19) this year. Measured prior to the trip and had about half the pad left. The video I put up is probably when the last of the friction material let go and I’m having to be conservative on the brakes.

My long winded point is that it’s possible to manage your brakes on track with fast lap times(briefly), but when a set of pads cost me nearly £350 and I rinse them in less than 3 trackdays max, I consider I’m getting them too hot and wish I had more in reserve. Running brand new brakes for every trackday isn’t financially friendly, but running the smallest/lightweight brakes is best for performance. The other consideration is the heat that is being put into the front wheel bearings (grease). The wheels get so hot I have to put aluminium tape on the wheel weights because they slide off otherwise. I looked into GT3 brake specs (typical car I can lap with) and from memory they have 380x35mm discs front and rear. I’m somewhat shy of that!

Everyone’s use case is different, this is just my experience with the car over the last 5 years.

 

[Paulm]

@4packet i definitley see your point, if your paying for your track time and only can get out for half of it as you have to wait for brakes to cool down, then you are at a point where you need to upgrade.
If these jap cars are even running 5 laps at high speed its only like 2 laps for a uk circuit, they probably can get away with decent pads and fluids

 

[Cullen94]

Interested to know how many flying laps those Japanese Time Attack cars doing back to back? Tsukuba is a very short circuit. Perhaps 2 or 3 times shorter than Silverstone/Spa for instance.

With brand new RS discs/pads and some cooling I’m sure it’s possible for short sessions, but I wouldn’t want to do more than a couple of hot laps with half worn discs and pads. I genuinely struggle to get 3 dry trackdays out of a set of pads with my setup (Fed RSR’s BTW). Twice now I’ve been caught out and gone down to the metal. At Oulton I was chasing an Atom race car and my buddy saw the front discs glowing cherry red down the pit straight. Half way round that lap the fluid completely gave out and I was lucky to make the corner, or even safely return to the pits. The caliper seals were wrecked from that. Slight caveat - the rear brake seals (2nd set of BigRed) never seemed to seal properly so the fronts were doing a little more work that day. The 2nd time was at Destination Nurburgring (19) this year. Measured prior to the trip and had about half the pad left. The video I put up is probably when the last of the friction material let go and I’m having to be conservative on the brakes.

My long winded point is that it’s possible to manage your brakes on track with fast lap times(briefly), but when a set of pads cost me nearly £350 and I rinse them in less than 3 trackdays max, I consider I’m getting them too hot and wish I had more in reserve. Running brand new brakes for every trackday isn’t financially friendly, but running the smallest/lightweight brakes is best for performance. The other consideration is the heat that is being put into the front wheel bearings (grease). The wheels get so hot I have to put aluminium tape on the wheel weights because they slide off otherwise. I looked into GT3 brake specs (typical car I can lap with) and from memory they have 380x35mm discs front and rear. I’m somewhat shy of that!

Everyone’s use case is different, this is just my experience with the car over the last 5 years.

Time attack takes place at Tsukuba and Suzuka circuits, Suzuka is a big track, bigger than Silverstone etc but I do see your point. It sounds like you go alot harder than your average Fdocer